Thursday, November 10, 2011

The Best Arguments in HYD History

Note:  This one is coming from Pat F through the email.  I probably would have added the topics of Joe Girardi, particularly when it came to his intake of protein shakes and bullpen management, whether Kyle Farnsworth deserves to breathe air that other people can breathe, and the Red Sox ownership treating their entity like a minor league team.  I decided also to attached "The Yankees' Former Third Baseman" as a label.  Here we go...

DV's excellent post recapping our debates about steroids over the last five years got me thinking about some of the other big topics that were much discussed on this site. If steroids wasn't the biggest topic, it was one of them. But there are certainly others, and thinking back to generate this list was rather entertaining. There were some that I completely forgot about that are downright hysterical when you consider how much time we devoted to them and how ultimately meaningless they were in terms of actually impacting baseball.

Here are the highlights:
- Josh Beckett as an effective pitcher, period.
- Roger Clemens as an effective October pitcher.
- Robinson Cano v. Dustin Pedroia
- Hideki Okajima, real deal v. will get figured out.
- Alex Rodriguez's on-field contributions, specifically big numbers and coming up short in the clutch pre-2009.
- Alex Rodriguez's off-field happenings.
- Chien-Ming Wang, ace or unsustainable style of pitching.
- Phil Hughes/Joba Chamberlain/Ian Kennedy as question marks pre-2008 season.
- Coco Crisp.
- Jacoby Ellsbury.
- Coco Crisp v. Jacoby Ellsbury.
- Jonathan Papelbon's on-field decline.
- Jonathan Papelbon's off-field commentary in media.
- Mark Teixiera as an impact player.
- The legitimacy of Dustin Pedroia's 2008 MVP.
- A.J. Burnett's 2009 Postseason as a pass for the rest of his tenure in pinstripes.
- J.D. Drew, generally.
- Is Pat F. writing too much about NBA and college basketball and not enough about baseball, 2010 offseason.
- Is DV writing too much about Coco Crisp and J.D. Drew, entire tenure of HYD Baseball.
- Does DV have any grasp on reality when it comes to Coco Crisp.
- The New Yankee Stadium, a real baseball park v. a joke.
- The 2009 (World Series Champion, I might add) Yankees bullpen, real depth v. a bunch of guys from SWB (this one still really makes me smile).
- Melky Cabrera.
- Brett Gardner.
- Melky Cabrera v. Brett Gardner.
- Being very careful with pitchers' workloads while they develop v. pushing them.
- 2011 Curtis Granderson v. 2011 Jacoby Ellsbury (Not that the player's vote has any huge meaning because it can be swayed by things like who they like more personally, but Granderson won the AL Most Outstanding Player on the player's ballot. Then again, the writer's vote doesn't carry much weight with me either, so the more data the better.)
- And finally, one of the biggest debates in HYD history, a buzz-name so controversial that any time it was merely mentioned on the blog the comments section went nuts and people we hadn't heard from in weeks if not months would come back to chime in...
Manny Delcarmen.

What were some of the great debates/arguments that we've had that I missed on this list (and I know there are a lot as this list was mostly off the top of my head)?


The GM said...

Joe Girardi: Overmanages bullpen, drinks too many protein shakes, but generally an effective manager, moreso than Torre.
Kyle Farnsworth: Sucks.
Red Sox ownership: Should sell the team.
Beckett: Not effective in the long run.
Clemens: Buckled under pressure.
Cano vs. Pedroia: Cano a better player.
Okajima: Got very figured out.
Arod: Good individual player. Actually a good fit for the 2011 Red Sox. Inconsistent as a teammate.
Arod: Disrespected baseball on many occasions.
Wang: Unsustainable.
Yankees Big 3 Pitchers: Mismanaged; overhyped.
Coco Crisp: Fantastic role-player.
46: Good skills, piece of crap. Gets thrown out at third base when trying to pad fantasy stats.
Coco vs. 46: Tell me that Saturday afternoon in September that you'd rather have 46. Coco got benched and showed up to play in the 2008 ALCS. 46 sulks and milks an injury after being moved to left field.
Papelbon: Redeemed himself in 2011, still a risky investment.
Papelbon's Comments: Showed accountability after long series of dumb comments.
Teixeira: Perennial MVP contender (sarcasm)
Pedroia's MVP in 2008: Not legitimate.
AJ Burnett's Hall Pass: Garbage, the guy sucks.
JD Drew: Epitomizes the problems with this team and the downfall of Theo Epstein.
Basketball: I appreciated the days off.
DV's Writing Choices: I do what I want. People sometimes don't appreciate steady torrents of truth.
Coco Crisp/DV/Reality: Coco saved the 2008 season.
NYS: A joke of a stadium only in April and May before the wind changes. Everyone plays by the same rules.
Yankees Bullpen: Relievers are volatile by nature.
Melky Cabrera: Okay, but not necessarily cerebral, player.
Brett Gardner: Better than 46.
Cabrera vs. Gardner: Yankees made a good choice.
Babying pitchers: Whatever you do, don't do it like the Yankees did with Joba.
Granderson vs. 46. Granderson made the playoffs; never got thrown out at third base trying to pad fantasy stats.
MDC: Is he still in baseball?

the gm at work said...

PF, evading his content filtering at work, is instead commenting through text message (I am hesitant to believe he can't do Internet on his phone).

Other topics flowing in from his mobile phone include:

-Lebron James
-The effectiveness of Theo Epstein
-The gyroball
-Brian Cashman

I'd also like to add sabermetrics to the list. We've talked about it extensively here.

Anonymous said...


Thank goodness for that last post--arguably the most heated line of discussion on this blog was Lebron James. Ironic, considering this is a baseball blog. I have to say that three biggest topics were Lebron James, Steroids, and Coco Crisp v. Jacoby Ellsbury. Were they the most relevant or important topics? No, but they were the ones that seemed to draw the greatest interest.

--the Gunn

the gm at work said...


Considering I spent all my credibility points defending Coco Crisp, I'm glad the argument has long-lasting impact.

Also, Lebron can certainly be part of the baseball argument. After all, he's in John Henry's portfolio, so you're supposed to root for him.

Enjoy yo day.

Ross Kaplan said...

How could you leave out...

Jeter/Mo - washed up, super humans, PED users?

Bernie/Jorge/Jeter - mistreatment of veterans?

Sheffield - malcontent or victim of racist managers?